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Gillian Culff Interview, with Nicelle Davis
You seem to make reference to your home in the poems. How does setting affect and inspire your work?
That's an interesting question, because I don't really think about any of these poems being about home per se, and for me, home is more of an emotional place than a physical one. My poems are usually more about interpersonal relationships than setting. However, I am very sensitive to my surrounds. Of the three poems included here, "Secaucus from the Train" is the only one that's completely setting-inspired. It was written when I was making a return visit to my childhood home of New Jersey. Normally, when I'm in New Jersey, I drive everywhere, but on this particular visit, I didn't have a car, so for the first time in my life, I was using NJ Transit. This gave me time to observe my home state in a fresh way, noticing details I hadn't examined so intently before. I had driven through the swamps of Secaucus and the Meadowlands hundreds of times, but while gazing out the train window I found myself wondering what those marshlands must have looked like before they became the site of factories, highways, and industrial pollution. Having lived in Hawaii surrounded by natural beauty for the past sixteen years, I was aghast to see homes plunked down right in the middle of this incredible ugliness, bearing witness to the destruction of a formerly complex and diverse natural habitat. And I wondered what it would be like to grow up there, surrounded by garbage, fumes and noise, rather than in the forested upper middle class suburb fifteen minutes down the road where I had been raised. Equally awful was watching the birds go about their normal behavior, oblivious to the horror that surrounded them.
I love how the poem “Bird Women” is completely altered by the poems title. What advice would you give to a young poet about the power of titles?
Well, for starters, I never title anything until it's otherwise done. The title always comes last. This is true of everything I write: fiction, poetry and nonfiction alike. In fact, I teach high school and middle school English and creative writing, and I tell my students to wait until even a paper is done before titling it. For a long time, "Bird Women" was called, simply, "Birds" as a working title, until the real title suggested itself to me. "Birds" definitely would not have offered the resonance you experienced with "Bird Women." I think the most effective titles take the poem and the reader to a new place, context or level of meaning that they can only understand after having read the complete poem. When I read poetry, I have a tendency to forget the title as soon as I start reading the poem, so that, when I finish, I need to go back and remind myself of the title. Oddly, this approach seems to work for me, because, inevitably, there's an "a-ha" moment that comes with the moment of remembering the title. A great example of this, for me, is one of my favorite poems, Adrienne Rich's "Power." Another of my favorite poets, Gabriel Spera, achieves that title-poem resonance in his collection The Standing Wave with poems like "Idle Hands" and "Without a Sequel." And of course, there's Seamus Heaney's "Death of a Naturalist," which might be the best example of this type of resonance I know. My advice is to hold off until the end and then let the poem suggest its title to you, rather than trying to impose titles on your work or, even worse, plunking something on there as if it has no significance, just because you need a title. Read the work of poets you like and notice how they use titles. And always, always title your work.
What new poetry projects do you have in the works?
I've actually been taking a break from poetry for a little while and focusing on a novel that so far has existed most fully in my head. I began to conceive of it two years ago, and it won't let go of me. On paper, it looks like a bunch of short vigniettes, pieces of chapters written in no particular order, although I know where they go in the overall narrative. I just returned from a writing retreat where I was developing some of these scenes and bouncing ideas and questions off some women writer-friends. I came back with a lot of food for thought, and since I'm on summer break right now, I have time to sit down and meet my novel face to face, as it were.
I really enjoy your use of spacing in the poem “Petal Wings.” It is a joy to feel moments of extended song and silence. In what ways do you think poetry is like music?
It's interesting that you read the spacing as a kind of music. I experience those places more as a breathless soaring across geographic space. The two strongest sounds I hear in that poem are the wind and the heartbeat of the narrator. But I do feel strongly about the sonic quality of words in poetry. This is why I tell my students that the best tool to help them develop as writers is vocabulary. The more words you have at your disposal, the more options you have, not only connotatively, but also sonically. I am famous in my school for making my English classes every year chant aloud as a class, "Poetry is meant to be read aloud!" When I grade poems, there is a criterion that reads, "Poem cries out to be read aloud." Of course, if a poem sounds like a great piece of music, but it makes no sense whatsoever or is bogged down in unclear language, well, I'd say that's more than a little unbalanced and problematic. This is a common error I find in the work of young, inexperienced writers who are developing their ear for language; they sometimes get so wrapped up in creating beautiful-sounding writing that they forget it has to mean something too. I try to encourage the development of the music in the poem while also asking them to consider what they are trying to convey.
Do you listen to music when you write? If so, what is your poetry soundtrack?
I love music, and singing and dancing are two of my life's great passions, but I cannot write to it. It's too distracting, and I don't want the writing to be influenced by what I'm hearing, which is someone else's idea. I tend to write in complete silence if I'm at home or to write outdoors in the natural landscape to the sounds of the wind through the trees and the ebb and flow of the ocean tide, which--along with the sound of a gently rushing stream-- are my favorite sounds. Most of my poems have been started in a natural location: often I write seated on an enormous dead tree at my favorite beach, where the bark is bleached white and smooth and it's comfortable to stretch out. When I hike with my family down into a remote valley, I always bring my journal, and I nearly always start a poem there. I wrote "Bird Women" while on a retreat, camping at the family estate of one of my students on the south part of the island. Her grandmother and great grandmother are bird lovers and keepers. The birds were my soundtrack; you might even say they sang out the poem to me.
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Bird Women
I Wild Birds
The birds gather
at several feeders
hanging from an enormous
monkeypod tree.
Green mesh trays like mini satellite dishes
swing wildly beneath plastic houses
brimming with seed. On each, maybe two
dozen small birds jockey for position,
hopping from catch-tray to feeder and back again:
finches, cardinals, sparrows.
On the ground below, grey Hawaiian doves
peck at fallen seeds, purring.
The chattering of some
seventy-odd birds provides the
background music—
a band of Ornette Colemans—
for the proprietress’s lunch, eaten
in her treetop screened porch.
She feeds cats too,
and when I ask if they hunt
the birds she so lovingly sustains,
she offers a nonchalant “yes,”
noting that the birds
don’t seem to mind;
they go on eating
as one of their brethren
is carried off by a mother cat
to feed a kitten in need of
fresh meat.
II Liko
Inside the porch, an Amazon parrot named Liko
perches outside the opening
to her cage. She carps incessantly,
not the high-pitched chirp of the finches,
but the shrill creak of a screen door,
slow-opening, gravelly and low, then grating
as it screeches before slamming shut.
Her owner tells me the bird
hates men. Every male exotic on the estate
bears a scar at its neck,
literal, not proverbial,
a wound received in the avian battle
of the sexes.
The woman’s 45 year-old son shows me his
scar: the bird knows a man
when she sees one,
whatever the species—
hates all equally, without
discrimination.
III The Aviary
Outside,
near the main house
on the estate,
exotics call to each other from
cages in rows—
a small avian zoo—
their freedom amputated,
punished for our
shortcomings.
IV Domestication
For a time she
might have flitted
through the trees,
wary of cats.
Once domesticated, she found
freedom
indoors, but two decades
is a long time,
after all. He didn’t expect
a bite to the throat,
nor did she,
didn’t expect
the bird to want
to use its wings
again.
Secaucus from the Train
A container, the kind a semi carries,
rusts in someone’s backyard, partly
obscured by shrubs.
The swamps of New Jersey spread
for miles. Waving cattails
hide the water from which they spring,
but I can see brown pools through the window
of a train heading west to Dover.
Below the tracks ducks gather
near floating boards,
partially submerged tires,
an empty drum, household waste—
the flotsam of a society at war with its origins.
Factory chimneys provide the skyline
for a sudden expanse of open water,
and a heron reveals itself, then another,
some geese. They gather, dipping heads under,
shaking thick, grey water
over feathers, oblivious to the insidious creep
of the unseen.
Around the next bend, the children living
in ramshackle brick and wood row houses
with concrete and garbage
for landscaping
and the thunder of the train
for music
don’t look out their windows.
Petal Wings
Spotting him on the horizon, you sail
in, your petal wings beating
as fast as your heart.
It's tricky, swooping
down, reaching out with your left arm to
grab the ailing man or boy or
boy-man.
You can do this,
you tell yourself.
You have the listening ear,
the beating heart.
As your left arm reaches
under his shoulder, encircles
his ribs and lifts, you feel
your chest beat against his,
you think you feel his
beating back.
His hair brushes against
your forehead, you feel
his cheek closetoyours
feel his e x h a l e
warm near your ear.
Your right hand scoops up
the detritus of his life:
an old pipe filled
with the resin of his mother's
errors; a lighter that might have shown
the way through the darkness, if only
he hadn't wasted its fuel on grass;
a whiskey bottle filled
with his sister's tears, his own.
You spread your perfect, white
petal wings and soar
up,
up
over the ocean.
You try to ignore the strain
in your back, neck, arms,
deny the racing heart,
the gasping breath,
as your wings beat faster
and bruise.
You look for a place
to
alight
a place where you
are you
and he
is he.
Happy.
Scanning the ground for miles
you see no
such place, you know
you can carry him no longer,
your wings mere petals,
so you
dive
skim the water
release him
gently
and watch his
long swim
home.